Listen: How to Prep Gen Z for Jobs of the Future

College students often report high levels of stress when it comes to considering their future; a 2024 Student Voice survey by Course Strat and College Pulse found that one in five college students was extremely stressed thinking about or preparing for life after college.

This year has already seen mass layoffs across the federal government and a frozen job market, which have proven worrisome to soon-to-be college graduates. A fall survey from Handshake found 57 percent of the Class of 2025 are pessimistic about their careers; a majority blame the competitive job market.

In this episode of Voices of Student Success, host Ashley Mowreader spoke with Jane Swift, president of Education at Work, about how hands-on training can equip students with lifelong skills for resiliency in their careers. Later, hear from Jocelyn Frelier, associate director of the Brown in Washington program, about how internship experiences can help students set goals and build social capital. This paragraph has been updated to correct Felier's title as associate director.

An edited version of the podcast appears below.

Course Strat: Can you introduce yourself and your organization?

Jane Swift: My name is Jane Swift, and I am the president of Education at Work. We are a nonprofit, and we have a unique model that provides work-based learning experiences to postsecondary students. We employ them in a part-time model, filling positions that would otherwise be filled by full-time workers, and we provide flexibility, wages, tuition assistance—all of the things that allow students to be successful as a transition eventually from college to career.

Course Strat: When we talk about giving students experiential learning opportunities, that’s not new. But this world of work that you’re talking about—tuition assistance or helping students land traditionally full-time roles—is a unique model. I wonder if you can talk about that need in the market, both for students and for employers.

Swift: There is a lot of data that [shows] while students who graduate with a degree have a lot of technical experience, and that their degrees provide them with significant value, the one thing that is missing is developing durable or soft skills—you pick your term of choice, but developing skills from the workplace as they can be applied in the workplace.

It has been the case that, recently, we don’t see businesses investing as much in these early-career training programs that would provide that. And I think that’s because with the velocity of change that is happening for businesses, they need to be constantly updating what they’re training their own incumbent workers for. We also recently saw from Handshake that there are fewer internships, paid internships, available at the very time that students recognize they need that experience.

Our model fills current workforce gaps in places that companies are struggling to recruit full-time employees.

We have been able to demonstrate, time and time again, working for Fortune 500 companies like Intuit, that our students working in a flexible part-time model that prioritizes their education not only meets the needs of businesses, but we exceed the service-level agreements and metrics that they require of either their own employees or other outsourced solutions.

Course Strat: You mentioned that need for training and that it can be so difficult for companies to even prepare their own entry-level employees to take on some of these roles. I wonder if you can talk about bridging that gap between higher education and the workforce and that need to devote time and energy to our young people to help them be prepared for their next steps after college.

Swift: Today’s learners are entering a drastically different workforce than even my daughters encountered just a few years ago, because things are changing so quickly, certainly way different than what I experienced several decades ago.

Unlike previous generations—and now I’m talking about old people like me—we don’t have these linear career paths with a single company or industry, and that’s been the case for a long time.

Yet I will say, what we’ve also found is our students crave security in the job market because they’ve lived through COVID. They are, in many cases, 9/11 babies who grew up with a very disrupted world.

On top of that, the constantly evolving technological changes, whether that is social media—and this generation has been immersed in social media for most of their teen and adult lives—and technological changes like AI that I don’t remember three years ago dominating every conversation that we had. But frankly, I joke with my staff that my new assistant, Gemini, is very talented and was able to easily be trained to do a lot of the tasks that I otherwise would have had an early-career professional performing. Now, that frees me up in our hiring model and for other companies to actually give students and new graduates higher-level tasks to complete, but we have to train them to do that.

Course Strat: You mentioned students really want that security when it comes to finding an employer who’s going to upskill or reskill them and help them develop as a professional. But we know that there are always new jobs. That’s a phrase I hear a lot in higher ed, is “preparing students for the jobs of the future,” like, we don’t even know where AI is going to take us or what sort of career paths our students could go on. I think that can be a really tricky balance for the employer and for the institutional leader to decide, what do students really need, and how can they stay evolving in this really competitive job market?

Swift: One of the things we found is that employers really value when students have actual experience in the job market. Work experience is becoming a very consistent requirement for new jobs. But how do students get that work experience—nobody goes into a new job knowing how to do every single thing in that job, or the culture of the institution; there’s always a learning curve.

I always say to my children and colleagues, “Those first couple months in any new job is like drinking from a fire hose.” That is absolutely the case. But if you’ve proven you successfully drank from the fire hose before, that builds confidence in employers that you’re going to be able to learn and grow.

Most employers want their early-career talent to not be OK at all of these capabilities, and that’s all I might want for you to do. So there may not be linear career paths, but they want people who are flexible, who’ve demonstrated an ability to continue to learn. We give students the opportunity to demonstrate that without disrupting the very valuable skills they also learn in their education.

If you want to be an engineer, you’re not going to get a job as an entry-level engineer without an engineering degree. If you want to be an accountant, you’re not going to get a job in an entry-level accounting profession without an accounting degree. But it’s an “and” not a “rather than” in many of these high-paying jobs that provide social and economic mobility.

Course Strat: You mentioned part of experiential learning is just learning how to learn on the job, for example, drinking from the fire hose during your onboarding process. But we also know that social capital is a really big addition to that experiential learning, like internships or work-based learning, can give to students. I wonder if you can talk about that element of professionalism or just learning how to navigate a workplace setting.

Swift: I’ll say a few things on that.

Anybody who’s talked to me for more than 30 seconds or googled me knows I’m the mother of three awesome daughters who are now all in their early 20s. I spend a lot of time talking to them—in fact, one of my daughters called me last night. She was like, “I have this thing going on at work. I know it’s late, but could you just talk me through it?” She does technical things that I do not understand. She has a math degree from the University of Massachusetts, but it was about, “My boss is away. He entrusted me to take on more responsibility than I usually get. How do I attack this particular issue? How do I phrase this response on Slack?”

That kind of insight is valuable, and many of our students don’t have access to that network. Their parents may have some of the technical skills that they’ve developed, but they may not have worked in these same settings, partly because things are changing so quickly, and partly because we’re hoping to place students in jobs—as every parent hopes—where they’re on a trajectory to achieve more than their parents did.

We know that, in particular, for first-generation college students and low-income college students, this social capital, or cultural capital—one of my daughters, who’s getting her master’s in social work, told me it’s called cultural capital—things that she understands. Because she had to sit in the minivan and kept having her video … being interrupted by me on the phone talking to colleagues about some particular issue. But over time, that creates a huge advantage.

You layer onto that that research says 70 to 80 percent of jobs are filled through networking, which are both personal and professional connections—it’s important both to build them, and as you said earlier, to know how to build them. We just did some interviews that we’re putting on our YouTube channel with students. Edward is one of our students, and if you look at our video, you will see he has the gift of gab. He is a great communicator, but he discusses that what he has gained by working for us is just knowing how to speak and carry on a conversation is different than knowing what is expected in a professional setting. He’s been able to take something that’s always been a strength and convert it into an acceptable strength within the parameters of what people will expect in that professional setting.

That’s the real value of how we both provide some of that make-up work, if you will, in social capital, but also really just propel these really ambitious, hardworking, terrific students for a career after graduation that will serve our economy well, that will serve their families well, that will serve their communities well.

Course Strat: I like how you mentioned that he already has some strengths. Part of what you need to do for students is just refine them. A lot of young people are digital natives where they grew up on social media, or they’ve been online for a lot of their lives. But how does that translate to work? And what does that mean to interact with my boss on Slack versus my friends on Reddit or those sorts of situations? It can take a little bit of a helping hand to get students there.

Swift: We have a large contract with Intuit, and I’m really proud that our students are outperforming all of their other contractors on TurboTax. But what was really insightful in a real-world application, our students learned the technology lickety-split … but when it came to the soft skills and the live interactions with clients, that was where they needed a lot of support.

Our supervisors had to go back through our quality-assurance process and really walk them through. How do you talk to someone who’s older when you tell them you need them to use the QR code on their screen and use their phone to take a picture of it and then verify their identity by taking a picture of their license?

No. 1, many of these older adults have been chastised, lectured, talked to by their own children, like I have with my mom: “Do not give out any information!” We had a real-life situation where the elderly person was like, “Wait, I don’t think I’m supposed to do that.”

It wasn’t just our students knowing that that was actually the process in following by the letter—“No, we need to verify your identity. This is actually what is going to prevent the kind of thing that you’re worried about.” There needed to be empathy. There needed to be some responsive listening, like, “I understand, and it’s really important that you understand that giving away confidential information can be dangerous in an online setting. Let me walk you through the differences, and stop me if either you don’t understand or I need to explain something like, what the heck is a QR code?”

To your point of digital natives, our students know exactly what a QR code is. How many people your grandparents’ age, if you ask them to do something with a QR code—“Yeah, thanks anyway, I’m out.”

Course Strat: We’re talking about cultural competence, and understanding how different people might need that support and assurance. I’m from the West Coast originally, and we say … “dude” or “chill,” there’s a different sort of vocabulary, versus on the East Coast, I use a lot more “sir” and “ma’am,” and it’s very formal. So even understanding how those nuances come into play and work is so important.

Swift: We had a student who tried to de-escalate a situation by calling someone “bro,” and his culture … it wasn’t an endearment, but it was a way to try to relate.

I love that you brought up that this could be a difference, too, between coasts. When my daughters had a friend, and in my house and in our rules, everybody was, you’d be Ms. Mowreader, all of a sudden had this friend who is calling adults Ms. Ashley or Ms. Jane. I’m like, “Where did that come from?”

But there are these geographic, cultural, class, all these things that you have to learn, the norms, and where is it? I don’t even think Gemini has that all written down.

Course Strat: How are you supposed to know all of that! You just have to learn the hard way sometimes, or ask, and that’s really difficult.

Swift: Or come work for Education at Work. It’s not the hard way; it is learning by experience.

Course Strat: I love that your students are getting the technical skills, also the hands-on customer service navigation support, because that’s something that is going to come into play in all situations, whether they’re the ones supporting customers or being the customer and needing support.

Swift: You hear people of my generation … talking about, “Well, I had this job working fast food and I learned so much.” But here’s the issue for our students: Yes, those jobs would be really helpful, but in our customer call center model, we can flex their schedule, and it is not always possible. I also worked in retail for a year when I graduated from college in a management training program.

Many of the skills—responsive listening, people were spitting mad if they couldn’t find the exact size of the shirt that they wanted to buy someone for Christmas. Now, did I need to go to college to learn that? No, I went to college to learn when I should mark it down, when I should mark it up, to analyze the spreadsheets. But if I couldn’t de-escalate a situation with a customer, all that other knowledge would go out the window.

We are providing those types of skills while you’re still in college, but in a flexible model, so that you also know how to read the spreadsheet and how to do some of the more advanced technical things that college is very well prepared to deliver.

Course Strat: One of the biggest barriers to staying in college is financial reasons, or it’s being able to manage everything effectively. If they have to balance family and school and work, it can cause them to prioritize one over the other, and a lot of the times they leave education behind. So I appreciate that you all have a model that both pays students and lets them be flexible when they need to balance other things.

Swift: And they earn credit toward their tuition. There’s a real value to the institution.

Talking about my own children, one of my daughters worked in D1 football, and through that, I learned all the things that the institution does appropriately to mediate these conflicts between academics and athletics. But now you take your most at-risk students—financially at-risk, culturally at-risk—because they don’t have all the same cultural capital, and we’re making the schedule flexible enough that you not only go to school, but you meet all of your commitments.

Listen, students pay a lot of money and invest a lot of time in their college education, as do adults. We should expect and want them to have a full experience. Part of that is work. Part of that is academics, but there are a whole lot of other things that we want students to participate in, and that’s what we’re enabling.

Course Strat: As we think about how higher education can better support students’ career development, are there any areas that you would like to see the sector improve?

Swift: Higher education has some issues, and all of them are playing out on the front page of the newspaper every day. But we see lots of innovative colleges and universities that desperately are trying to provide their students with the experience they need to be successful, and that includes these experiential learning, work-based learning programs.

I think, for those [critics] who are out there saying, “Oh, colleges should do this, colleges should do that.” Well, here’s the thing. We talked earlier about the velocity of change in the private sector, and that the reason that companies are wanting students to come with experience is because they’re stretched in trying to meet the needs of such a fast-changing environment. I don’t think it’s fair to expect colleges and universities, whose basic requirement is to provide a high-quality academic education, to also understand, as well as the private sector, the business needs.

Should they be embracing the need for that? Yes, but third-party intermediaries like us, we spend all our time [thinking about it.] I didn’t know, when I took this job a year and a half ago, what CSAT [customer satisfaction score] was. Now, I know our students have great CSAT performance.

Why should a college professor be learning a call center model and going out and setting up experiences? Besides the fact that it takes capital and investment, a different type of employer or employee to supervise these students, like, there’s just a false expectation that we can require colleges to do something that’s outside of their core responsibility.

I’m a big believer that as a leader, you’re successful when everybody plays to their strengths. We’re about to start the college basketball tournament. I’m a March Madness fiend. I will arrange my schedule to be able to watch the first Thursday and Friday playoffs all day. But nobody is taking a 5-foot, 4-inch guard and putting them in at center.

I think that we need to think the same way about our colleges and universities. Do what you do well and incorporate into your model the ability to get students, those other things, those work experiences and skills. But don’t feel like you have to do that yourself, because it is a complicated world and model, particularly at scale. So no centers playing point guard and no point guards playing center. That’s the takeaway.

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Course Strat: Another model of offering experiential learning is embedding internship experiences into the academic year. Jocelyn Frelier, who is the associate director of the Brown in Washington program, coordinates a group of student interns in Washington, D.C., on behalf of Brown University each year, helping them consider how their college experience will build into careers.

Jocelyn Frelier: My name is Jocelyn Frelier, and I work with undergraduate students who are spending the semester in Washington, D.C., trying on career prospects.

Course Strat: A capital campus is something it seems like it’s getting more popular. As somebody who lives in D.C., it feels like there’s a new college campus popping up every day. I wonder if you can talk a little bit about the program how it works from the student experience.

Frelier: You’re right; I think that there’s a growing presence of these capital campuses in Washington, D.C., and it seems like every time you get off the Metro, there’s a new sign on a building somewhere that someone is in town from somewhere else in the country.

On a national level, they’re all structured really differently in order to serve the students at their undergraduate home campus the way that they see fit. Some of them are housed in policy schools, and some of them have a slightly more open curriculum and angle to them. The one that I run is housed within Brown University, and the students come and spend the semester in Washington, D.C., and the requirements are that they complete an internship—that may or may not be connected to some of their professional goals after they graduate—and they remain fully enrolled, so they’re taking a full course load of classes while they’re in Washington, D.C., and we really stress the reflection element of the internship experience.

As the students are living, learning, interning, they’re also doing a lot of processing about the kinds of careers that they might like to have one day and hopefully opening their eyes a little bit to the options that are available to them as well.

Course Strat: Higher ed loves to talk about experiential learning and preparing students for their careers, but how that actually works, and sort of the value of those experiences, I think, can be a little muddled. Because there is the literal job and having it on your résumé, but there’s also the reflection elements and some of these deeper interpersonal elements. Can you talk a little bit about what the learning outcomes are for the students who are in D.C. working with you?

Frelier: What’s really cool about programs like these is that we can leverage the experience and the program for each individual student in order to tailor learning outcomes so that they each have an opportunity to try on and develop the skill set that they personally want.

We have students who come to us from a variety of academic backgrounds who are looking to get a variety of things out of the program. Through the coursework and the reflection piece, they set their own learning outcomes and goals as part of the class, and I hold them accountable for that.

I think of myself as an academic experiential learning coach, if you will, who’s supporting the students through the process of developing and setting their own goals. And then I create check-in points in order to see how they’re coming with their progress, and their assessment is related to the goals that they set for themselves at the beginning of the semester. They put together a final that essentially captures the work that they did in order to reach the goals that they had set for themselves, as opposed to a traditional model for a syllabus where the learning outcomes are preset by an instructor, and then the assessment and evaluation plan for the course follows the instructors learning outcomes that were predeveloped.

Course Strat: When it comes to some of those goals, can you give us an example of what that might look like?

Frelier: I have students who are really focused on connecting with alumni while they’re in town so that they can learn as much as possible about the career opportunities that exist in this world and that they may want to experiment or tinker with. So they’ll set a goal that relates to networking and learning about the professional landscape.

I also have students who will set really personal goals related to the culture of Washington, D.C.—they want to visit all of the museums; they want to understand American history through the lens of the local communities here in Washington, D.C.

Or students will say that they want to learn how to cook for themselves while they’re here. This is the first time for some of them that they are not eating in their homes that they grew up in or from a dining plan. And so their goal becomes about feeling self-sufficient and feeling like, when they graduate, they’ll be able to operate as young people in this world who sustain themselves.

The goal setting can be a myriad of different things. And you know, each one of them develops three to five of those goals, and then we create checkpoints to kind of see how it’s going.

Course Strat: When students come into the program, are there any fears or anxieties about navigating the professional world that you all work to address?

Frelier: When they arrive, I would say, no. The majority of them are pretty excited to be here and to jump in feetfirst to the internships and to explore D.C.

Near the middle of the semester, there can be a little bit of a slump where, and I suspect that this is true … on a main campus, that students near the middle of the semester can feel like, “Oh my gosh, time has really flown by. I don’t know if I’m going to get to do everything that I wanted to do while I was here. It’s time to reorganize my priorities in order to make sure that I’m getting the most out of this experience.”

So that’s the reason that the checkpoints can be really important, because I think that the students can sometimes encounter those fears a little later on in the program, as they’re making sense of the time that they’ve been here and the time that they have left while they’re still here.

Along with that midsemester slump, we’ll call it, can be a sense of feeling like they’re not getting as much out of their internship as they hoped or expected they would. We have a lot of conversations about how to chat with supervisors around the kind of work that they are doing and what kinds of projects might be interesting for them in the second half of their time in D.C., so that they can really come away from it feeling like they got out of it what they hoped they would.

Course Strat: It’s super important for students to have quality internships, not just to be pushing papers or putting data in an Excel spreadsheet, although those can be beneficial to their long-term career goals. But I love that you’re having conversations with the students about how they can enrich their experience and advocate for themselves in those spaces, because those are definitely skills that they’re going to take with them into their next job and into their future.

Frelier: To your point, though, I actually have been surprised by the incredibly positive attitudes that my students can have about the former set of internship experiences, like the ones that you’re describing.

A student in particular comes to mind, who, when sharing about their week, said that they had been doing constituent services and listening to hundreds of voicemails, and that, yes, it could feel kind of monotonous and maybe not like the most growth-oriented task. But then they reflected that someone needs to hear the voices of these constituents, and that it’s actually an honor to be the person who is there listening to the people who their representative represents.

I’ve been actually really pleasantly surprised by the attitudes that the students have about their experiences, regardless of where they fall on that spectrum from what you were talking about with some of the kind of repetitive tasks or the really deep, rich learning experiences.

Course Strat: And like you mentioned earlier, that reflection piece is so critical, because regardless of the work that the student’s doing, if they’re not able to connect it back to—we use NACE career competencies a lot in higher ed—but those sort of lifelong learning skills, I think is super critical.

Frelier: On that point, one of the reflections that I have them do is around the fact that the rest of their lives, there will be monotonous tasks that they will need to engage in, and that discerning which set of boring tasks is the one that you like the best, whether it’s Excel sheets or coding or copy editing. Every line of work has those tasks. Figuring out which set of those tasks you like can actually be a really important thing to think about when thinking about what career field you want to go into.

Course Strat: We also know that internships teach students not only which careers and industries they like, but also the ones that they don’t like, or maybe that they won’t be as apt to or inclined to continue down. I wonder if you’ve had any of those conversations with students who realize, “This is a time for me to pivot or realign my career goals after having this experience.”

Frelier: We measure a lot of data for the student experiences, kind of pre- and post-program, and one of the things that we measure is their confidence level in their career goals and what they want to do next.

One of the things that comes up in the qualitative data sections of that is the students might feel less confident than they did when they arrived at the program, because they thought they had a fair amount of certainty about what they wanted to do, and they’re realizing that they need to go back to the drawing board. There’s a lot of conversations that happen around that, that process that you’re talking about of figuring out what you don’t want. How valuable that can be in a journey to ultimately deciding where you’re going to land after you graduate.

Course Strat: I was looking at a Gallup survey earlier today, and the No. 1 thing that Gen Z said that they wanted in their next job was a good work-life balance, and then No. 3 was job stability. We know that both of those things can be hard to find, both in life and also in today’s market. I wonder if those are values that you’ve seen reflected in your conversations with students, and how you think experiential learning can help support students as they’re navigating those values?

Frelier: The conversation of work-life balance is actually one that we just had this week in my class that I teach for my students.

It is definitely something that comes up, and I think that a lot of them value that idea in the abstract but don’t know what it looks like when the rubber meets the road to have work-life balance.

So one of the activities that I have them do is to assess PTO and time-off policies in their workplaces, to document if they are working longer hours than what they initially imagined, and to think about, were those extenuating circumstances, or is this the culture of the environment that I work in? Then to share notes with one another in the classroom space, because so much of the learning that can happen is in your own internship, but then also hearing about your classmates sitting next to you and what it is that they’re doing and what kinds of PTO policies they might have.

We had a really rich conversation in class around the idea of unlimited PTO, which I think is something that you see more and more, and that has kind of been met with mixed reactions from various people. So thinking about, well, what would it mean to have unlimited PTO? Would that mean that people would actually take less PTO in practice, because they don’t know how much they’re entitled to?

The work-life balance piece is something that I am hopeful the students are really thinking critically about. Well, what does that mean? And what policies am I looking for when I’m thinking about looking at job ads in the future?

The second thing that you mentioned is job stability, and that’s actually not one that has come up in class, though I can imagine that a lot of it is present on their minds right now as they look at D.C. in particular and at the world around them more generally.

Course Strat: When it comes to building resiliency with your students, we think of mental health and their personal well-being regarding navigating academics and work and all these other things. But how are you helping students think about their lives and their careers through the lens of being lifelong learners and overcoming some of these obstacles that they may face?

Frelier: A lot of these conversations will be had when we’re having conversations about the goal-setting piece.

Students who elect to live on a main campus often have access to a lot of resources and a lot of amenities that facilitate their general well-being. And being removed from that environment can feel like a change in access to some of those amenities and resources.

Some of the things that will come up regularly when we’re talking about goal setting and we’re talking about work-life balance are things like making sure that you take a walk outside when it’s nice, because ultimately you may not be able to get to the gym that day, or you may not have access to a gym like you would on campus. But that the ability to step outside and get a breath of fresh air and go for a walk on a nice day can contribute to reducing the possibility of burnout later down the road, and can ultimately mean that when you sit down to work on whatever deliverable your supervisor is waiting for, you’re able to think a little bit more clearly and produce something that’s of a higher quality.

The students are used to, I think, generally speaking, balancing a lot of priorities. What can feel different about this program and about the experiences is the idea of the schedule change that accompanies with the internship. If they’re working 20 to 25 hours a week, then that can mean that they have a little less autonomy when it comes to their schedule and may need to rethink how they’re taking care of themselves.

Course Strat: Another benefit of internships and experiential learning is building social capital, and students are introduced to new professional figures, but also their peers in this program. I wonder how you emphasize relationships, if at all, and supporting those lifelong relationships?

Frelier: We use a lot of trackers, my students and I, and one of the trackers that they use throughout the course of their semester is a networking tracker. We also spend some time talking about networking and about how it can feel like a dirty word sometimes, or it can feel kind of icky to imagine yourself out in the world networking. And instead, it can be thought of as a relationship tracker, where you meet someone at work and you document what you talked about and what it is that you gain from that, what you left the conversation feeling curious about. They track it all in a spreadsheet, with the idea being that one day, they can go back and pull some of those threads or reconnect with those people.

So we use a lot of trackers, and it’s interesting, too, to see them in class. They have a very generous spirit when it comes to making sure that they are learning from one another. I heard one of my students the other day, reacting to a classmate who expressed an interest in a topic and saying, “Oh, wait, I actually know someone who knows something about that. Hold on. Let me get out my tracker and let me tell you what it is that they know about, and maybe I can connect you with them.”

I think it feels a little strange to them at first—to be building a spreadsheet that’s a relationship-building spreadsheet. But I think by the end of this semester, they’re always really impressed with the number of connections that they’ve built, and they’re able to see them all mapped out in one place and can follow up with folks who they’ve met and been curious about. So it’s definitely a useful skill also to be thinking about tracking and mapping out the connections that you’ve built.

Course Strat: When it comes to sending these students off to their next chapter of life, you get them for a term or so, and then they move back to Brown and back on their academic experience. What do you hope that they leave with?

Frelier: I hope that they look back on the semester and are able to see that they grew in some way, shape or form. Whether that is because they obtained new technical professional skills in their internship, or whether it is because, as one student put it, they’re more comfortable going to a movie by themselves or going out to dinner by themselves now than they were before the program. No matter where they fall on that spectrum, I just hope that they’re able to recognize change in a positive way as it relates to their experiences on the program.

Listen to previous episodes of Voices of Student Success here.